vergoldung: (change your clothes to tuxedos)
[personal profile] vergoldung
People of the internet, hello.

As most of you know all too well, [livejournal.com profile] ever_neutral is a filthy bully. She's been requesting that I post snippets of our conversations re: season 5-6 of Doctor Who and her incessant yapping has payed off. I am making a post. Actually, it would be more appropriate to say that I am simply publishing her handpicked selection of quotes. (Can you believe she even did the work for me? Amazing.)

So I honestly don't know if anybody will care about our bitching (it's all out of love, promise) but here it goes anyway. Warning that our love is an ugly love and that grammar and spelling do not exist in our bar.


POST-THE ELEVENTH HOUR

vergoldung: ok so i really enjoy eleven's playfulness because it's a trap?????
and i can see why people see ten as the emotional one, because when he does feel emotions, he's not that good at filtering them, emotions aren't really his weapons. sometimes, of course, the way he radiates pain with bring the point home, but that's not really how he gets shit done? imo at least. he's a brainy dude. who feels a lot but it's his smart thinking that saves the day, his wit that gets people to like him and his honest outbursts of emotions that get people hooked. so to me ten is what i'd call emotionally straightforward? (does that even make sense lol).
but eleven..... GRANTED I ONLY SAW ONE EPISODE I CANNOT TALK YET (but i still will lol)
i feel like his playfulness is his ultimate shield to control his (and other people's) emotions
no need to be cold or bossy, you can just wink it off and everybody's peachy and you still havent given an inch.
like omg maybe i am completely wrong about this
but i got the very strong impression that eleven was the type to come off as very approachable but ultimately a pain to get to know
#performers

ever_neutral: bro, you are nail head about eleven
eleven is ALL PERSONA
ten was actually upfront about his real feelings
eleven covers his up with the fake cheery armour
and btw when i said eleven is more frank about who he is that's based more on later eps
w/o getting too spoilery eleven actually says straight up a shitton of times that he is not a nice guy

TL;DR
vergoldung: ITS LIKE I IMPRINTED ON HIM
ever_neutral: BLESS
ONE OF US
vergoldung: NEVER HAS A DOCTOR MADE MORE SENSE TO ME

-

POST-VAMPIRES OF VENICE:

vergoldung: so i'm seriously agonizing over eleven's game
how good is that dude
#GOALS
tbh
him playing all coy with amy and then shamelessly bragging to rory to humiliate him in front of all his pals (but oh it's all harmless fun, he doesn't know what she's talking about right?), him using The Laugh on river, him constantly micro-managing everybody and telling them to shut up and listen to him preaching 24/7
while supposedly being this friendly dorky hipster

ever_neutral: dude, you would be amazed by how fandom buys into all this shit
the common fanon about the doctor is that ten is ~the heartbreaker and eleven is ~hilariously oblivious about r/ships (esp. w/women)

vergoldung: omg i'm laughing irl
OBLIVIOUS ABOUT RE LAT IO S H IPS
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAA
ESPECIALLY WITH /WOMEN/////////

vergoldung: like how isn’t it OBVIOUS that this guy is "letting" others shaping his relationships just so that he can have better control over how it actually goes, without getting any of the blame being the clueless manchild and all. damn if that isn’t the finest defensive tool of all time??? don’t get close, watch from a distance and be agreeable when needed, moody when fitting and doing everything on your terms all day every day
i feel like he's the kind of vaguely defined persona that has a recognizable outline, but that zooms in on the person at hand to hash out the details in the most beneficial fashion

vergoldung: with eleven i feel like he's much more attuned to the challenge in people, as well as in social situations (like how much he gets off on this amy-rory soap opera drama of a runaway bride and her reverent loser bff)
like, ten got off on solving things

ever_neutral: eleven is interested in solving people

vergoldung: /cries

vergoldung: ok but can we also discuss how his hipster attire is the perfect expression of his ambiguous persona
it's actually the perfect chameleon outfit i'm weeping????
like it can pass as lazy-but-classy-as-in-he-tried-a-little-see-he-wrapped-that bow-tie, can pass as eclectic taste but boringly wearing that same outfit everyday, can pass as a quirky exception to add a splash of flash to the grey of life, can pass as good boy button up, can pass as slob with too short pants he probably inherited from his gramps, can pass as intellectual wannabe gavroche, can pass as conservative preacher about old times, can pass as too cool for school better than all you bitches i set the trend watch me conquer, can pass as fashion deaf specialist too busy to figure out the work to keep up to date who cares if you can see some ankle, etc etc etc etc

ever_neutral: ”””good boy button up""" choking

vergoldung: ((we do not discuss the british rockstar hair, because just that additional touch of grease and we're right there))

ever_neutral: (BRO. I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST ME.)
TOTALLY BRITISH ROCKSTAR

vergoldung: RIIIIIGHT???

ever_neutral: HE COULD FRONT A BAND RN






AMY'S CHOICE:

vergoldung: omfg this dream lord is amazing

ever_neutral: he spends the whole ep slut shaming the doctor, it is amazing

vergoldung: amazing indeed
esp. bc he is such a slut i mean
/pets him

vergoldung: did rory and the doctor just compare their dick competence

vergoldung: also wow he legit dreams up a situation where amy has to choose
what a masochist

vergoldung: i'm a broken record bro but how on earth do people think eleven is a childish innocent figure
i mean, ofc i wouldn't have predicted that it was ACTUALLY his subconscious talking but he was clearly feeling dat shade all along
like when the dream lord (also lol "dream lord") says you old man have always had a preference for the young, he's just =___= i know you sick fuck, i don't want to talk about it

ever_neutral: also this is just proof that the doctor is truly the sassiest
even his subconscious is like z formation

ever_neutral: btw this fandom also has a hilariously rosy view of eleven/rory

vergoldung: loooooool
don't tell me
they are chummy bros who teasingly "fight" over amy but not really because chummy bros.

ever_neutral: people think rory is also eleven's bff

vergoldung: LOLLLLLLLLLLL
as if
as iffffffff

ever_neutral: and that eleven is an adorable amy/rory shipper

vergoldung: hahahahahahhaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha
SURE

ever_neutral: but he was totally playing matchmaker at the end there, eleonore
nvm the whole episode prior where his subconscious was insulting rory like shade was going out of style

vergoldung: lol even he was insulting rory, as if the subconscious wasn't enough
people seriously believe that he ships datz?
SINCE WHEN HAS THE DOCTOR EVER BEEN ABLE TO SHARE?????
he wasn't even that happy about donna keeping in touch with her fam
he agreed to it but it was begrudgingly and that was PLATONICAL!DONNA

vergoldung: also if the dream is feeding off the doctor's subconscious
then he canonically wanted to murder rory
how is that not proof enough
he wants him deleted so bad
OK I AM MAYBE SEEING THIS A TAD TOO DARK
BUT AM I REALLY?


POST - COLD BLOOD:

vergoldung: i'm really really really sorry to inform fandom that eleven is the captain of the kill off rory ship
It's so hilar
like all his talk about "don't let yourself get distracted from rory's memory, focus focus, don't let anything distract you, amy, listen to me amy, don't let my japping distract you from your useless fiance, don't do it, focus, got it amy? amy!! it's eleven, do you hear me, i'm here, it's me, eleven!!! think of rory ok?"
a comedy
like wow that dude is so insanely starved for her attention, chill out son
her fiance is disappearing from this planet, stop being so me-me-me

ever_neutral: eleven needs to take a bucket of sedatives

vergoldung: idg how he thought that was helping
((except if he really just wanted rory to disappear, shhh))
the only one he wants her to remember is /him telling her to remember rory like a big damn doctor hero/ and not actually the fluffy times she had with pointy nose. like. the show has these cutesy flashback interrupted by eleven ranting at amy to look at him and "remember" and her coming back to reality in order to remember better that it's not rory but rory+eleven (but better eleven mentioning rory or actually just eleven yes perfect) that she's supposed to keep in her thoughts. BUT MAYBE I AM READING TOO MUCH INTO THIS MONTAGE. MAYBE MAYBE.

vergoldung: in other news, matt smith needs to discipline his boner because wow boy don't eat her face
like she be all //YOU KILLED RORY AGAIN YOU SON OF A BITCH SHOULD I COME AGAIN WITH THE WHAT IS THE POINT OF YOU OR ARE YOU GOING TO MAN UP AND FIX IT// and [matt]'s all googley eyes at her trying not to enjoy the passionate proximity too much but...........the glee is written all over his face

ever_neutral: [basically no longer a person]








ever_neutral: people want to pretend they're best bros and that it's a shiny happy ot3 rather than a triangle (i.e. what it actually is)

vergoldung: omg of course how could i not see that this is how fandom would be

ever_neutral: lol, i thought that would have been obvs tbh

vergoldung: obvs that fandom would be weak?
yeah i guess
they right!ship ten/rose after all
if that's not proof of weakness of spirit then idk what is

ever_neutral: this shade

vergoldung: #not sorry

ever_neutral: you'd be amazed how much fluffy eleven/amy/rory fic there is
people acting like this is a thing that would actually work

vergoldung: are you serious
rory is not here for that

ever_neutral: that's my problem with ot3-ing it
there is no third leg
lol, and it's mutual
as you have laid out in great detail regarding eleven secretly plotting to murder rory and whatnot

vergoldung: no and it's really not like with mickey (which also would not be ot3 material lol but i'm sure people wouldn’t because people prob cannot see anything other than rose/ten) because at least mickey had this badly covered up admiration for the doctor, like as much as he didn’t like to be i think he was quite impressed by the doctor (like both rose and him were quite impressionable kids i think? despite the bravery and all, they were suddenly facing a world of possibilities and the thing is even though mickey was more scared than rose and initially less adventurous, he also wanted that magic - i think he was just majorly pressed about the doctor stealing his boo while also looking down on him, but i really think his reluctance was more of a pride thing?) anyway my point is that so far i haven’t felt like rory is here for anything else but amy. like he just DOESN’T NEED the doctor. he doesn’t need this adventure. he just wants to be with amy while she is on an adventure? like if the doctor just told them that he's done with them, i think he wouldn’t care that much? like ok sure it's too bad for the missed fun, but home is fun too. he'd prob only be really pissed about the doctor hurting amy. BUT IDK. WHAT IS A RORY

ever_neutral: this is the thing idg about him tbh
as in, the domestic dream
but also this is one of the reasons he just doesn't get what amy sees in eleven
i think rory feels like an outsider the whole time
which is different from eleven being the third wheel bc eleven absolutely does understand why rory is important to amy (considering that eleven himself is the reason rory is important to amy, lol)

vergoldung: forever agreed that rory doesn’t see eleven's appeal
like he is so immune to the charm it's a laugh
lol the more i discuss this the more i warm up to this terrible ship
hilar

ever_neutral: you know, it's not so much that rory doesn't get the doctor's appeal, full stop, as that he's SEEN the damage he causes to people
i mean, amy was in therapy for YEARS and who was the one who had to support her all that time? rory.

vergoldung: yes this. he's not impressed by the doctor because he sees past the bling and the dream-selling. he knows he will win over the doctor in the end, because the doctor never stays but he will. he might not be much but he's endurance personified. he knows he'll be there when amy wakes up from the second doctor dream ahahahaha
HE KNOWS HE CAN WAIT OUT THE DOCTOR. HE DOESN’T REALLY FEEL THREATENED BECAUSE HE KNOWS HE CANNOT LOSE AT THIS GAME. OMFG. KILL ME

ever_neutral: ia but also i don't agree
imo he does genuinely feel threatened
and i honestly don't think rory wants to be second best

vergoldung: oh sure. that's normal. but considering amy's obsession with the doctor i think he's not "worried" enough. and i don’t think he should because i agree that he'll win this game in the end. i'm pretty sure he'll always be the safest bet and i'm quite sure he knows the advantage that this gives him. i mean that if he wasn’t aware of that, then it would not make sense for him to not be having a major freakout over this doctor situation.
if she betrays him, i don’t see him being that easily forgiving. but that doesn’t mean he'd give up on her forever.

ever_neutral: except that she DID betray him and he did easily forgive her
though granted that's bc he was fed lies by both amy and eleven

vergoldung: yeah... if he saw amy coming on to eleven then that would be a different story i think
it's not that i think he's totally secure. i think he's very bothered about this situation because he's aware of how much he has to lose and that the risk is /real/. what i mean is that he's not worried about /NOT BEING COMPETITION MATERIAL/ because he knows his chances and he's going to take them. he's not resigned at all, which i think is quite surprising considering that he's in the ideal position to feel like the doctor's foil, useless, worthless, bland, whatever. but he owns his brand and he's here to stay? idk i think he that shows a necessary amount of self confidence and hope that he'll be the romantic lead of that story after all.

ever_neutral: you know one thing i wish the show fleshed out more
so i read somewhere that the original description of rory was that he started studying medicine //because he was emulating the doctor//??
as in, he was literally trying to make himself become amy's dream man

vergoldung: omffffg
WHY DO I KEEP HAVING THESE RORY FEELS CAN IT STOP
oh rory was born ready to try his best to be not only amy-worthy but like actually making sure that he's also EVERYTHING THE DOCTOR IS NOT AKA DEPENDABLE, because he knows he knoooooows that this is who he needs to be to stand a chance against a 900yo alien player

ever_neutral: lol, alien player. this truth.
ia that amy loves rory b/c he's the anti-eleven

vergoldung: wow ok this is terrible. i cannot. i have a rory headcanon of him molding himself to fill out amy's standards in men, but knowing better than to try to compete on the doctor's terms because that would be hopeless i mean he's /rory/, but he's playing with the knowledge of amy's trauma and the doctor can never be anything else but the ideal?? he can be reality, like maybe that will not be enough, but it's his best bet...........to actually be the option that's real (but for that amy still needs to graduate from neverland)
agreed about rory not trying to be eleven. he's not that performative. (plus it would be a terrible strategy because he would stand no chance against the real thing)

ever_neutral: the thing is that the doctor is not actually a doctor
and amy doesn't actually care about the doctor being a doctor

vergoldung: but amy needs a doctor

ever_neutral: yes, exactly

vergoldung: i just think it's totally brilliant that rory ends up being the /translation/ of the doctor in "reality", not a bad copy or a wannabe, but an actual translation. the doctor travels the galaxy to help people (note : always going back to the safety of his tardis, he's everywhere but he's also nowhere because of it), rory will be a shipless captain of the kind nurses, saving people to the best of his abilities (i assume). the doctor lures you in with infinite options and lies of eternity? rory will promise you physical forever, rory will let you explore yourself as long as he knows you still need him.
and this is not to say that rory is anything like the doctor or that they are legit parallels between their personalities because they are so different? but it's really interesting to me how he's the foil that's lacking, but also winning in all the aspects that the other is lacking?
and actually, if rory was indeed a performative person, then idt he'd really stand a chance in this amy/eleven scenario, because he'd question his own worth way too much (because if the persona gets topped then it's unlikely to feel like the underlying essence will do the job you feel) but he has this self confidence about who he is, without delusion that he could be something more

ever_neutral: lol, this is what i mean - rory is actually the most secure person of the three

vergoldung: yessss because eleven = all persona. he's way too protective of his self to be able to bargain with it and say "here this is me, i will give you earnest, i will give you truthful, i will give you enough of me that you can have the leverage you need to be able to trust me"

ever_neutral: also if rory was actually similar to eleven then amy wouldn't be hft

vergoldung: amen
she'll fall for that shitty act once not twice

ever_neutral: yep. the doctor can never be trusted (for the above reasons) and what's the point of that risk
tbh safe choices are underrated

vergoldung: lmao
point







vergoldung: my feels about river/the doctor are not improving to the good side

ever_neutral: what puts me off caring is how imbalanced it is
i buy that river is hopelessly in love w him
but srsly how much more emotionally detached can eleven get

vergoldung: i just know he's going to be a manipulative dick in the future and that seriously turns me off
like she said, young and impressionable and there he was and he knew the "truth" of her.... who wouldn’t be blinded by that kind of miracle
smh because he's just irked by her initially

ever_neutral: yeah, man, this is my issue with virtually all eleven ships
he almost always has the emotional upper hand
while at the same time giving zilch back??

vergoldung: also uber not here for eleven knowing that if he "refuses" this love story then he is basically rewriting history where all of their past together (aka her future) isn’t happening, and she's been a key player and i'm sure she will be again, so like.... i know he could care less about emotional honesty when it comes down to saving his precious planet earth. so basically all of it can be an epic fraud on his part and he'd see it through til the very end because that's how he does business

ever_neutral: YES EXACTLY X3W98479343
he is OBLIGATED to play along FOREVER
but there is no emotional risk for him, it's completely her heart on the line

vergoldung: like i'm so sure that fandom must be all over how she is "strong and fierce enough" to handle him BUT SHE IS HONESTLY THE MOST VULNERABLE TO HIS ANTICS I THINK???

ever_neutral: YOU KNOW FANDOM IS

vergoldung: there is no out for her
and sure there is no out for him either
but so what
he's not even that affected
but she DIES for him
like all of his other female "friends" get to a point where they choose. him or out.
but river will never even get that choice
it has to be him
smh
in fact it's so essential that it's him that come the point where it can’t be him anymore because their timeline has run out of time....she dies.
oh no sorry she gets put in a nightmare of a limbo where she can pine after her merciful jailor for all of eternity

ever_neutral: lol, why the airquotes

vergoldung: because "friendship" is only the glossy cover of those messy relationships (save for donna)

ever_neutral: yeah, well, at least he actually is friends with them to some degree
i don't see even that degree of emotional intimacy with river

vergoldung: it feels so much like business
and in a way she seems to treat it as such, but you know that's not how she feels (but it's quite revealing that this is how she has to play it, to even get to see him at all)

ever_neutral: and that's interesting that their whole r/ship is play pretend
but again, eleven's not playing pretend to cover up vulnerability







N.B. I said season 5-6 but it's more like three episodes of season 6 so DON'T SPOIL ME seriously I am already spoiled for too much on this show.
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